Poured Over: Nick Medina on Sisters of the Lost Nation

By Jenna Seery / April 18, 2023 at 6:00 am

“You get to learn a bit about the social issue of Native women and girls going missing and that’s really what I hope a lot of people will take away from this, having more awareness…”

Nick Medina’s debut novel Sisters of the Lost Nation defies genre — mixing mystery, horror and family drama into the story of one teen girl as she searches for the women who’ve gone missing on her tribe’s reservation, including her own sister. Medina joined us to discuss the unusual way his ideas came to him, preserving culture through legends and stories, his research and the resources he used and more with guest host, Marie Cummings. We end this episode with TBR Topoff book recommendations from Madyson and Jamie.

This episode of Poured Over was produced and hosted by Marie Cummings and mixed by Harry Liang. Poured Over is brought to you by Executive Producer Miwa Messer and the booksellers of Barnes & Noble.  

New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app.

Featured Books (Episode)
Sisters of the Lost Nation by Nick Medina
Tender is the Flesh by Agustina Bazterrica
Don’t Fear the Reaper by Stephen Graham Jones
The Only Good Indians by Stephen Graham Jones
The Shards by Bret Easton Ellis

Featured Books (TBR Topoff)
Something is Killing the Children by James Tynion IV
White Horse by Erika T. Wurth

Full Episode Transcript

Marie Cummings
Hi, I’m Marie Cummings. I’m a bookseller at Barnes and Noble. And I’m honored and delighted to be talking with Nick Medina, author of the incredible debut novel Sisters of the Lost Nation. Hi, Nick. Thanks for joining us today.

Nick Medina
Hi Marie, thank you so much for having me.

We are so happy that you’re here. Can you tell us a little bit about Sisters of the Lost Nation?

Yeah, absolutely. Sisters of the Lost Nation mainly revolves around two sisters, the oldest being Anna Horn, she’s 17 years old. In high school, she’s a bit of an outcast, a bit different than her classmates. And for the most part, she doesn’t really care. She’s not out to impress anybody. She has her own thing going on. She’s deeply in love with her tribe’s history and her tribe’s story. By the way, I should mention that characters are Native American, so they live on a reservation in Louisiana, the Takoda reservation, which is a fictionalized tribe, for the novel, on the reservation, young women and girls start to go missing and Anna really becomes very consumed by this, very concerned, especially when her younger sister Grace, who’s 15, goes missing as well. And so, throughout the story, we see Anna starting to put together the pieces, trying to figure out what’s going on here. And at the same time, she’s being haunted by this story from her childhood, the story that her uncle told her when she was seven years old, about a creature that can stalk you and consume you. And she starts to think that maybe this creature is what’s responsible for what’s going on the reservation as well. So it’s kind of a mystery thriller, but also a good amount of horror that comes from native folklore, and they’ll give the reader a thrilling time and maybe even a scare. But also at the same time, you get to learn a bit about this social issue of native women and girls going missing. And that’s really what I hope a lot of people will take away from this, having more awareness of that issue.

The horrors in it were the stuff of nightmares, truly. But the missing girls was so heart wrenching, and it must be so scary for Anna and the other girls on the reservation just to see the people around them going missing and little to nothing has been done about it. So, what inspired you to write this story?

One day, I woke up and I went outside and there was a newspaper on my driveway, and I don’t subscribe to the newspaper. And it wasn’t either of my neighbors. It was there really by mistake. And I didn’t know where it came from. So, I just picked it up, but I tossed it into the recycling bin and I didn’t really think much about it. But then later that day, I started getting this nagging feeling like you should at least look at that paper, you know. So I went and I dug it out of the recycling bin in the garage, and I started flipping through it. And there was an article in there and it said, the headline was “Epidemic Hits Native Americans”, and it caught my attention immediately. And I just started reading it and it was about these two sisters, the Loring sisters, Ashley Loring, who was, I believe, 20 years old at the time, this was in 2017, she went missing from her tribe’s reservation, in I believe it was Montana, and her older sister Kimberly was out searching for her, and she vowed you know, I’m never going to stop searching. I’ll search until I’m 80 years old and unfortunately, she is still searching, she hasn’t found her sister yet. As soon as I read that article, I just had an idea. And it really took off right from there that very night, I started outlining ideas for this story. And then of course, I researched other stories. You know, there’s so many instances of this happening, there’s so many families out there who are missing one of their loved ones. And it’s truly heartbreaking. You know, that was the real inspiration for it.

It really is so heartbreaking. And you had mentioned when you were giving us the quick rundown of the book that you fictionalized Anna’s tribe.

There was a couple of reasons— First, there are certain things in the book that I didn’t want to necessarily put on any specific tribe, like I didn’t want to saddle any tribe with certain issues in the book, because I didn’t want people to start to associate maybe that tribe with what’s going on in the novel. And it also gave me more freedom as a writer to create the world that I wanted to create. The reservation in the book is based on an actual reservation, but it’s not 100% accurate. So it gives me that freedom of just being able to create the world that I wanted to create for these characters.

Right. And then knowing too, that you fictionalized the tribe, the newspaper said, it’s an epidemic for indigenous people. It’s not anything that affects just one tribe. It’s everyone. It’s a real problem.

Yeah, great point as well. And I named the tribe, the Takoda tribe, which is a Sioux word, which means friend to all so I wanted it to be a tribe that could relate to perhaps all tribes even though you know, tribes are greatly different, but I wanted to be something that be relatable.

That’s so beautiful, friend to all, and the tribe felt so real as a reader and all of the stories that you’ve put together to really build that world of Anna’s tribe and the reservation, what influenced or in inspired the details that you chose.

Some of them actually come from my family’s experience. I am part of a tribe, the Tunica Biloxi tribe in Louisiana, so that’s where I drew a lot of my influences for this tribe as well. The novel is set in Louisiana, so it is a native Louisiana tribe. So yeah, a lot of the ideas just came from my experiences, my family’s experiences, things I remember from my childhood, my grandmother did grow up on the reservation in Louisiana and I remember certain things that she had told me. I also was able to find a documentary from my tribe that gave me a lot of information that I was able to use and adapt so that I could create this setting and this world.

I loved reading about all of the different animals and just the stories that Anna was pulling in like when she saw the squished frogs, or when she would talk about the armadillos or the crocodiles, were those part of the details you were pulling in to build the tribe.

Yeah, parts of that, from my tribe that Tunica Biloxi tribe, the alligators are really significant animals. So I wanted to incorporate that as well. So that was part of the influence in the story where she’s talking about the origin of the tribe. A couple of the other stories were just based on other legends that I gathered from other tribes. I read a lot of lore and folklore, so I was able to pull in different things that I had come across. And then with the frogs, you know, the frogs are really significant for many, many Native nations and I’ve always liked frogs as well. And actually, when I was writing this book, there was an incident one day where I was driving home, and I was driving home in the rain and around me where I live, there’s always a lot of frogs, but when it rains, they all go into the street. So I often find myself just stopping and trying to usher them out of the road, kind of like Anna would do. And there was one day when I got out, and I was going to try to save this massive bull frog and before I could get it, someone just came in ran right over it. So that really was the inspiration for the frogs in the story. And, you know, the frogs being in the road. That’s something that you’ll find very early on in the book.

Yeah, they’re drawn to that heat. Unfortunately, that heat for the frogs is the paving heat. Yeah, you touched on this a little bit, just in saying that you’ve been, you’ve pulled from a lot of lore that you read. One thing that I really loved in your note at the end of the book was that you said that the Takoda Nation isn’t based on a single native culture. It’s a unification of native stories, traditions and beliefs. You’ve talked about that a little bit so far. But were there any resources you use to build this culture?

There’s a couple of resources that I used. Some of them are from my tribe itself, we have a few published books with some short stories that I was able to use. There are various resources I found online that compile a lot of different tales from different tribes that I found really useful. I can’t remember the name of that website off hand, but it’s easy to find if you were to Google it. Also, like I said, I used the documentary that I had found. Yeah, I think those were the main things that I’d used to find different stories. Some of the stuff was just also in my head, I don’t remember where I first encountered some things like, I remember for the creature aspect of the book, that was something that I already had in my head, something that I had already read before. I did then go look up more information about it. But you know, some stuff is just already there.

Yeah. Was it like with Anna, did someone tell you that scary story as a child? The rolling head?

No, not exactly. I was actually able to have fun with that one. The book starts off with this scary story, this campfire story. And that was really fun to write, I love that kind of stuff where you get to kind of create something creepy and just kind of dive into it and have fun with it.

Oh, it’s so creepy.

I love being able to describe it, putting in those descriptors was so much fun for me. That was something that was almost not in the book. That opening chapter with the campfire story was one that we added on or I added on late in the editing process. We weren’t settled on how we wanted to start the book, I had an opening chapter, but we weren’t sure if it was the right chapter and then one day I can’t remember if it was my agent, and it was my agent who suggested why don’t you tell the story? Why don’t you open with that and I was so happy she came up with the idea because I think it worked out really well, like I said it was so much fun to write.

You gave so much description to the head but left it vague enough throughout that I found myself saying sometimes like with Grace and Robbie saying like his probably just a raccoon, Anna, you’re fine. But then the other side of it is like, what if something is really following her? What if something so scary? What if a bit her ankles? Oh, no.

Yeah. And maybe we shouldn’t make that clear, I think I was just referring to it as a creature. But yeah, it’s this disembodied head that Anna sees following her and which her uncle told her about when she was seven years old, this head that can follow you and roll behind you and ultimately eat you if it wanted to.

So I mean, you’ve talked a little bit about your research, what’s your process? Do you research while you’re writing? Or do you get it all out and then go back a little bit later.

It’s a bit of both, I am an outliner, so I do like to prepare and plan in advance. So, I try to get as much out as I can. So I have a really solid idea of what I’m doing and where I’m headed. But then, you know, as I’m writing, oftentimes, I’ll come across something where I need a little more information. And so start doing more research as I’m writing or I might end up just going in a completely different direction than I had originally planned. So of course, then I’ll have to stop and take a pause and do a bit of investigation to find the information that I need for whatever direction I’m now headed in. Typically, I do like to be pretty well prepared when I’m sitting down to write something,

Did anything surprise you, as you were writing this?

Going back to the social issue of the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, I was kind of peripherally aware of the issue, when I started. But as I was getting deeper into this and doing more research, I found the statistics and the numbers regarding this issue, just really, really surprising. And it’s so much bigger than I ever imagined. And that really kind of shook me, you know, there’s so many stories, like I said before, so many heartbroken families out there. And there’s so many articles and documentaries that you can watch about it now, because it is gaining so much more attention. That part was surprising.

You touched on those statistics a little bit in your author’s note at the end of the book and it’s truly mind boggling and insane to think that it’s not top of mind for everyone, as all of these women and girls have gone missing.

And unfortunately, maybe that’s just because there’s so much stuff like this going on in the world. It’s not just natives who are impacted, it’s other minorities, other groups. Unfortunately, there’s so much to be aware of, but yeah, you would think or hope that, when a young girl 13-14 years old, goes missing that people would put more attention into it and really try to find the reason behind it. Another thing that is really surprising was that I found that a lot of cases just get attributed to an accident or some easy explanation. So you know, if they find a girl out dead in the cold, they might just say, oh, it’s hypothermia and they’ll leave it at that, but not investigate— why was this young girl out in the middle of nowhere in the cold with no clothes on, it’s more than just hypothermia. So those type of things are shocking.

And that combined with the jurisdictional issues that you really, like outlined in the book must make it so infuriating for the people who are living these experiences.

Definitely. Very frustrating for the families going through this, but it’s also frustrating for the authorities themselves. So, you have to look at it from both ways. Because if you know, a young girl goes missing on a reservation, and then the authorities get called off the reservation, they’re gonna say, well, what was she doing? And if she’s on the reservation, if that’s the last place she was seen, then it’s kind of your responsibility to try to find her. So they don’t really have the reason or motivation to dedicate funds that probably are lacking in the first place. You know, everyone struggles with money. So it’s like, where do we put our money? Who do we put our attention on? And if it’s not a clear-cut issue, if the person didn’t go missing, you know, off the reservation, or from a specific establishment or from a specific home, or address can make things pretty murky and hard to determine who’s responsible and who’s going to take the lead.

Yeah. And then so then going back to the story, it really feels like if Anna wasn’t paying attention, and wasn’t so persistent in figuring out what happened to Grace and also Missy and the other girls, it feels like it just would have been like, well, they ran away, or they’re gone. She is so strong and resilient. Can you talk a little bit about what inspired her character.

I wanted Anna to be someone who was very independent. I wanted her to be someone who had put faith in herself but also a bit of doubt. And I think that comes through in the story. She’s a strong character, but she doesn’t know her strength from the beginning.

Yeah, she’s really human in that way.

Yeah, I just wanted her to be someone who was a little different because it’ll show the difference between her and her sister. And I think it gives this kind of a duality to the story, but I just wanted to show how different the two characters are. So, Anna and her sister, Anna is this very independent kind of strong person, very stubborn as well. And her sister Grace is also very stubborn, but in a different way, she’s more persistent in the things that she wants, and she maybe is a bit more self-centered.

Yeah, I feel like you really nailed that sister relationship, though, to just say, thanks.

Yeah, some of the stuff that inspired Anna also came from historical elements. Anna is a character who ultimately becomes what’s known as Two Spirit in the native history. And I wanted to, without getting too, into, like, sexual orientation or sexual identity yet, I wanted to be able to reflect a little bit of how traditionally Native people have accepted gays, lesbians, transgender, because I think it also adds to the social commentary. So Anna is one of those characters who, you know, she’s not just one thing, she’s not just a girl, she’s not just someone who’s easy to identify, by looking at her or by even just talking to her, you have to get to know her more. And you have to be able to let her show you who she is, because she is kind of this caretaker, in a sense a healer. Someone who, you know, is ultimately going to be very important to her tribe when she grows into her role.

Yeah, I love that because the book is a journey for truth in many ways. And as a teenage girl, as a teenager, just in general, you’re trying to figure out who you are. And once those stories of the Two Spirits started clicking into place for her, it felt like she was finding who she was through all of this terror and heartache she was experiencing.

Yeah, I’m really glad that that came through. It’s really the challenge and the heartache of what she’s going through that does help fuel her and help her find who she is and what she needs to be and it helps me also realize what she can ultimately mean to her tribe.

Yeah. And the other part of what was so beautiful about this book, you know, aside from her pursuit of her sister and the other missing girls is the importance of Indigenous stories and how she is keeping the stories alive by going into Ms. Shelby’s trailer and reading her books. And you can you talk a little bit about Anna’s efforts there?

Her tribe is at a point right now where they are really focused on new things. So they have a recently built a hotel and casino on their land. And, you know, everyone is very excited about it, and very focused on it and hoping to grow it and to make more money. And so Anna sees this and she kind of sees it as losing the past, losing the things that were important to the tribe when she was a little bit smaller, so about 10 years before. And, you know, she really values her tribe’s history, she values the tribe stories, and the character in the book, Miss Shelby, she is a legend keeper and a singer for the tribe and she used to tell Anna all these stories when she was a child. So Anna really wants to hold on to that. So after Miss Shelby goes missing herself, Anna starts to go into a trailer and to look up those old stories, and to try to retain them and remember them, and she’s hoping that the tribe will help preserve them, you know, she just really doesn’t want to lose that aspect of the tribe. She wants that history to still remain and to be strong and to be something that does influence her people, and which people will share it.

And it feels like if she didn’t do that they would have been lost forever. Because who else was going into that trailer and taking in those stories?

And then ultimately, it’s those stories that help her figure out what it helps you grow as well and, you know, find herself.

I just really love that. And you mentioned that Miss Shelby was the legend keeper. Can you talk about that a little bit more what a legend keeper is?

Yeah, that’s something that I had pulled from my own tribe— the singers and legend keepers, they are people who are just very familiar with the origin stories, the traditional stories, they will show up at various events. The powwow are the celebrations throughout the year, and they’ll share the stories or they’ll lead in song or they might even lead in different prayers. So they are significant figures and they do hold a lot of knowledge, a lot of wisdom about the past. And so yeah, they are cherished people. And that’s who Miss Shelby was in this tribe, for the sake of the story, she was the last in the line, you know, so once she goes missing the stories go with her. And that’s really part of what fuels atmosphere, you know, she’s like, who’s going to who’s going to carry on these, these stories? Who’s going to remember them? Who’s gonna pass them down. So that’s part of her quest, as well, you know, keeping the history alive, while also trying to keep these young women and girls alive as at the same time.

Yeah. And it seems like Miss Shelby knew that. She had to do something to keep the stories alive, because Anna found that handwritten notebook.

And thank goodness for that, right, Anna finds these notebooks written by Miss Shelby with the stories in them and that’s really the saving grace. That’s where she finds some of the answers that lead her to where she needs to go in the story and ultimately helps her preserve those parts that she doesn’t want to see loss,

Because you talk a lot about the past and the future progress and loss in the book and just right now, while we’re talking, so do you think that’s how Anna overcomes her doubts and her fears to create that Preservation Society?

I think that’s that could be a fair assessment, creating this Preservation Society to safeguard these stories and to make sure that they are there for the tribe, is a way for her to, I think establish herself and overcome maybe some of her doubts or insecurities because she can see, hey, I did this, I built this, and she can take the strength that those stories give because they are lessons, life lessons. You know, they are meant to help you understand the world around you a bit better. So, yeah, I think those are definitely very helpful to her there, in a sense, maybe even healing to her to help her deal with the issues she’s facing.

What a monumental task and a huge responsibility for 17-year-old too. I mean, everything that she faced but like to keep the stories of her tribe alive. I could see why she was afraid, at first to talk to the council about the Preservation Society idea.

Yeah, she was she was a bit intimidated to actually make the proposal to get this Preservation Society started. But yeah, I think that’s also part of her growth, obviously, you know, becoming stronger, really seeing that these stories are necessarily, not just for her, but for everybody. If she just keeps them to herself. Yes, they might benefit her, but she knows that they can definitely help the tribe as well, to help you help them to see what they’re letting go to.

And to maintain the identity of the tribe as well. I mean, she found her identity through the stories and other truths. So it feels important for her to continue that. But gosh, it must have been so scary for her to at the same time.

I bet. And you know, and unfortunately does deal with a lot of scary stuff, a lot of fear. Someone had asked me, someone else who had read the book already, why is there so much terror? Why is there terror at every turn in this novel? I think it was just necessary. You know, it takes place in a very short period of time, roughly one month. And throughout that month, we have several young women going missing, including Anna’s sister. So how could you not be afraid when someone you love is not home? That’s all you’re going to think about, you’re going to be consumed by it. So I really wanted that fear to come through throughout the story. Unfortunately, Anna had to deal with it, but she comes out stronger in the end.

Yeah, she’s amazing. I mean, she’s the reason why they got any answers at all. I also want to talk about the casino a little bit, as we’re talking about progress, and the tribe is all about moving things forward, and sort of like, quote unquote, modernizing with the paving streets. And I said it that way, because it’s clear that Anna felt two ways about it. So there’s new cars, new clothes, paved roads, cell phones, jobs, but on the other hand, it feels as though the casino doesn’t treat the Indigenous employees with respect, like the opportunities are very surface level. How do you feel casinos built on indigenous lands affect the people living there?

For the most part, I think they can have a really positive effect. Like you mentioned, suddenly, there are more jobs. And of course, obviously there’s more money coming in and people are able to perhaps pursue things such as education that they weren’t able to before. But of course, whenever money comes into play, there’s always the potential for the negative side as well. And I did want to show both of those things, even in small ways. Like you know, I mentioned that some of the characters, they’re now going to college or some of the characters are now able to, you know, fix the holes in their roof or, get the new appliances in their kitchen because they’re necessary. But then, you know, on the flip side, there’s also the opportunity to spend that money on vices, such as, you know, alcohol, drugs, among other things that are also mentioned in the novel. So sometimes can be a double-edged sword, it really just comes down to I think, the individual, it’s hard to say, it’s going to impact everyone the same way. Of course, there’s the good, there’s the bad and that’s what Anna recognizes. So this is some, some people like her father are doing things for the family and trying to better their situation. And then you have other people kind of like Fox in the story who is buying, you know, the flashy watch, the flashy truck, the new TV, not really caring about his future so much. He’s just enjoying, enjoying the moment and going along with it, which might not be the best idea.

Yeah. And his bolo ties. It feels like she is caught very much between two worlds and she knows that progress needs to be made, so that everyone can move forward. But seeing that, it has to happen in a way that will help people and so it feels like she is trying to help that.

Her heart is in the right place, she wants to see, she wants to see the tribe do well. And that’s really what frustrates her in many ways, because she can recognize the areas where people are faltering. And to her, maybe it’s a bit easier, and she can see it so clearly, to her, she can say, you know, this is what needs to be done, or this is what we should be doing. But getting that message across and making everyone take it seriously, that’s the hard part. And I think a lot of us struggle with that, you know, when we see something not going right, there’s something that could be going better, you know, how do you communicate that to someone, how do you open their eyes and make them see that sometimes you just have to let them you know, make their mistakes and learn from them. And that’s also part of the story as well.

And I loved her grandma and how she played that role of like being a listening ear to Anna to air out those frustrations and really be that safe place. Kind of felt like the only safe place for Anna to let things go but also for Anna to reflect on how much good progress has been made just in her grandma’s lifetime.

Definitely. And that’s also something that I was able to pull from just history and that documentary that I’d mentioned from my tribe. There were interviews in there with tribal elders, who were able to speak about what it was like when they were young and the challenges that they had to face. And I should say that documentary is I think at least 20 years old, so you get the history from early in the 1900s from people who lived through it. And you know that the reservation for a lot of them was the only safe place you know, leaving the reservation you were subject to discrimination. This was before the civil rights movement. So you know, I clearly remembered from that documentary, this is tribal elder crying, talking about how she couldn’t go to school and when they would go into town, they couldn’t go into certain stores and they could only go into certain diners if it was guaranteed that they were going to spend a certain amount of money and they would have to sit in certain areas. The reservation is the safe place but like you mentioned Gran in the story is Anna’s safe place as well is able to go to her and I for me it was kind of interesting because Gran is someone who now doesn’t have a whole lot of power, she’s suffering or she suffered a stroke. And she’s lost a lot of her abilities. Anna wants to make sure that Gran doesn’t forget who she is doesn’t forget her power doesn’t forget her role within the tribe. You know, I’ve really liked that relationship between the two because Anna could come to her and share her frustrations and her fears. And even though Gran is weakened, she still has some power within her which Anna makes her or helps her see.

I loved all of the moments that you put in there with Gran. It just felt so special. I really loved her.

Thank you. Yeah, I do. I think she’s a very comforting character. And, you know, that stable character because there’s a lot of instability.

Oh my gosh, yeah, that’s an understatement. And it felt like you put those moments in with Gran at all the right times because there’s so much discomfort and terror in the story that it’s like, but then she can go home and she can talk to her grandma and not feel as scared all the time.

Yeah, it definitely helps her gain a little assurance and Gran is the one who does offer, you know, a story that helps Anna to really cement who she is. And that story, you know, comes into play and it leads her right through until the end of the end of the story.

Is that story, and I don’t want to give anything away. But is that story, one that you made up? Or is that one that you took from some other cultural stories.

That one is actually from another tribe, I can’t remember, I have the book right here, I could try to look it up like, that story is based on a native ceremony. So, it plays into what we were talking about before with Native nations being accepting of gay, lesbian, trans individuals. Yeah, like you said, don’t want to give away too much of the story. But it plays into helping Anna figure out what she is or who she is.

You worked in so many beautiful stories, just one I can think off the top of my head when Anna and Grace were walking to work, and Grace says, tell me about the stars and she tells her two different stories about the stars. Did you work in some of your favorite stories?

Yeah, and I’m glad you brought up the stars, that is one of my favorite stories, the death story. And so they say, when someone dies, a stone is thrown into the river and if the stones floats, then the person who died can return to their tribe. But if the stone sinks, then that person becomes a star in the sky to watch over their tribe at night. And I just think that’s a really beautiful, beautiful sentiment and a beautiful thought. Because you know, it’s comforting to us, you can look to the sky, and you can see your loved ones out there and you know that they’re always going to be there.

Yeah. And it’s a beautiful story and a beautiful sentiment. And that’s why stories like that exist, right, to help us when we’re feeling that times are really dark and bleak. And so it’s so nice that you worked that in there.

Yeah, like I said, I love that story. And I think it does a lot for the characters, it just really makes them makes them a bit hopeful, I guess because they’re still there. We haven’t even lost them completely.

There’s something that I wanted to touch on, as you’re talking about this documentary, which by the way do you remember what it’s called?

A Promise from The Sun and it’s about the Tunica-Biloxi tribe, which is the tribe that I belong to.

Thank you. It sounds like a great documentary. I want to check that out. Something that you said too, is that like, the stories of Indigenous people during the pre-Civil Rights Era aren’t as prevalent as other people of color. And so, I feel like over the past couple of years, there’s been a little bit of a shift culturally, that we’re seeing more Indigenous stories coming to the forefront, whether it be novels or TV shows, like Reservation Dogs, or movies or documentaries, and how do you feel seeing these stories coming up in popular culture?

I think it’s great. I mean, I enjoy so many of these programs and books, especially so many great Native writers out there now. And I know a lot of them don’t want to just be called Native writers. But anytime you just put a label on someone that it might not be the best idea. But there are so many great writers right now who are producing so many amazing stories with Native influences. And I think it’s great because it does fight stereotypes, it does help make people see that no, Natives and not just these ancient people, reservations and who are just, you know, having powers or you know, dancing around with feathers. It, hopefully, it’ll make people see that, you know, we’re all just people, and we all have the same problems, and we all have the same issues. We have the same goals and dreams and you know, we’re all in this together. But yeah, it’s great to be able to see representation and be able to see more exposure for the things that are valued within specific tribal nations, so that others who aren’t, you know, familiar with those cultures are able to have a better understanding of it.

And the stories have always been told just they are more accessible to more people and it feels like, that’s a little bit of what the ultimate goal with and as Preservation Society could be, too.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. The Preservation Society, in the end is a place where both the tribe and non-tribal members can go to get a firm grip on, you know, the history of this tribe, who they are, where they come from, and ultimately where they’re headed is well, and also if I could go back, you’ve mentioned Reservation Dogs, just wanted to say that Elva Guerra who stars on that show as Jackie actually did the audio book narration for us, which was really cool.

I thought her voice sounded familiar.

Yeah, yeah, I was real thrilled to have her do this.

So what do you want readers to take with them when they’re finished with Sisters of the Lost Nation?

Of course, I want them to be able to say, you know, this is a great chilling tale, something that will stick with them, maybe give them a good mystery to solve as they’re going along in the story. But also, like I said earlier, just really want people to perhaps gain even greater awareness of this, this issue of young women and girls going missing. And I should also say that it does go beyond women and girls, it also affects young men, boys as well, don’t necessarily get as much attention, but they are included in in some of the statistics. So I think it is important to point that out as well. But yeah, overall, I really just want people to be more aware. And also, you brought up that I included an author’s note at the end and I did include some resources, if anyone wants to try to get involved or help in any way. But even simple things like sharing information on social media, there are great resources out there that will post when someone goes missing, and if you can just share that, get the faces out there, help people see who is in need and who we’re looking for, little things like that can definitely help out. So maybe this book could be something that will maybe open people’s eyes to the problem and get them more involved as well. And like I said, it doesn’t have to be anything major, just little things. Definitely hope.

I think it will, I wanted to say this is like, this is such a beautiful debut. I can’t believe this is your debut. What’s next for you?

Well, we have my second book coming out next year, April 2024. And if you liked this world, it does take place on the Takoda reservation once again, it’s not a direct sequel, actually, it happens 10 years before this book, part of it takes place 10 years before and then part of it also takes place in the present. So we have a little bit of back and forth going on. And like I said, not a complete sequel, but they do hinge on each other, I think they fit together very well. You’ll see recurring characters. And you’ll also find some answers that you didn’t get in Sisters of the Lost Nation such as what happened to Miss Shelby.

I was just going to ask, you that you said 10 years before, right?

You know where I was going. So yeah, what happens to Miss Shelby, also find out who dug up those graves in the cemetery? Where did those bones come from? I think I think it’s gonna be a lot of fun. The next one is a bit more horror based. If you like horror, you’re gonna get a bit more of that, but also touches on some social issues, as well. So yeah, I’m hoping you’ll also be something that will be helpful to Native speakers at the same time. Yeah, I’m finishing up that second one right now. Actually, the manuscript is due next week. So I’m in the final stages of getting that all getting that all prepared. And then hopefully, you know, hopefully, I’ll have some more stuff out after that. I do have a short story coming out in in the fall, I believe in September that will be out. It’s part of an anthology called Never Whistle at Night, which is being published by Penguin Random House. I’m just hoping things will go well, and hopefully I can keep doing this for a while longer.

Yeah, that’s so exciting. You’re really busy in the best possible way. And I am thrilled to hear that the next project will tell us a little bit more about Miss Shelby, and those graves because you didn’t answer those questions purposefully.

Yeah, I’ll admit, I actually wrote most of the second one before I wrote, Sisters of the Lost Nation. So I was able to play off of that, because I already knew what was going on, what’s going to be the second one. So I was able to have a lot of fun with that, because I basically set myself up for the mysteries that take place in Sisters of the Lost Nation, knowing that I would be able to reveal those mysteries later on.

I love that, I’m so excited. Now I can’t wait for April 2024. Are you reading anything right now that really excites you?

I feel like there’s been so many great books lately. I usually read at least, I’d say about two books a week. I just finished reading, and this one was out already for a few years, but it absolutely blew my mind— Tender is the Flesh by Agustina Bazterrica. absolutely loved that. I’m in the middle of Stephen Graham Jones, his latest one Don’t Fear the Reaper, so good. Also his novel The Only Good Indians, also one of the, for me one of the greatest horror novels I’ve ever, so rarely that I actually just read it again because I love it so much. I just read Bret Easton Ellis’s new one The Shards, which I thought was amazing, a big fan of his work. So yeah, there’s so much good stuff out there right now.

There’s so much out there, including Sisters of the Lost Nation. Well, I will show you this is what I did to my copy. Really I read it to death. It’s a beautiful book. I love it so much, readers are gonna love it. It’s a great story. And I’m so happy that you took the time to talk to me today about this book.

NM
Absolutely. You know, I couldn’t even believe that you all wanted to have me on so yeah, you know, believe me, this is an honor for me. I’m super appreciative to be talking to you. Thank you so much. Thank you for all the kind things you said about the book. It really does mean a lot to me.

MC
We are big fans. I can’t wait to see what comes next from you.

NM
Thank you.