Interviews
"They also didn't realize that many girls were sent away because parents, especially those from marginal backgrounds, had few other resources to control their daughters. The schools were symbolic of how biased the criminal justice system could be."
Joan Sangster in conversation with Sara Alaica
SARA ALAICA: You have written a number of books concerning the criminal justice system. How is Girl Trouble different?
JOAN SANGSTER: The previous material that I have written covered a more limited timeframe, concerning adult women. Girl Trouble focuses on child delinquency and encapsulates the whole period from the passage of the 1908 Juvenile Delinquents Act to the 1960s and Federal government attempts to create a new law. It also creates links from the past to the present by drawing on current trends and problems that are relevant today, such as the Young Offenders Act. Girl Trouble is also meant for a more general audience, and does not draw on a large amount of theoretical work but focuses on specific stories of girls and families caught up in the system.
SA: Which of these stories stands out most in your mind?
JS: There is one story of two First Nations sisters from the North that I will never forget. They couldn't have been any more than thirteen. They were originally caught stealing groceries from a house with their little brother in tow. Other things came into play during their trial so that they were accused of sexual immorality and were deemed mentally retarded because they were so withdrawn.
SA: To me this story summed up what was wrong with the criminal justice system.
JS: They were obviously destitute since they were not only caught stealing food, but were taking care of their younger brother. The girls also had no English language skills, and the man from whom they stole acted as their interpreter. They were then sent to an Ontario training school, where they were culturally isolated and misunderstood. It was so appalling that none of this was considered. And this was only one case! There were so many like this.
SA: Why were public perceptions of youth crime important?
JS: Public perceptions may not reflect reality but they have an effect on policing, law making and public opinion. They definitely alter the way we see youth crime. This is not to say that youth crime is imagined, but it does affect the way we understand and define crime. This then determines action and incarceration.
Many girls were sent to training schools because their actions broke expected social mores rather than federal laws. Sexual promiscuity, for example, was deemed immoral and incorrigible and required punishment as "treatment." Native girls were another good example. The experts did not understand how the girls coped with being in court where they were often quiet and withdrawn. Because their behaviour was unusual, they might be deemed mentally retarded and sent to schools for such children.
SA: How has the child welfare system influenced female delinquency?
JS: Child welfare groups encouraged the discussion of issues surrounding the criminal justice system that consequently lead to the growth of experts in this field. During the 1930s, for example, they helped open up research on environmental factors, such as poverty and lack of housing that they thought lead to delinquency, although many still saw the family itself as the major cause. Unfortunately, the activists didn't have many resources or much money at the time and could not do much. They really had band-aid solutions. For some girls, these band-aids helped, but it didn't get to the root of the problem.
SA: How did the media help foster these ideas?
JS: The media relied heavily on these experts and wrote many stories with the help of psychologists, social science experts, and criminologists discussing the state of child delinquents and how they should be dealt with. They replicated what they had to say and created a fear and anxiety about delinquency, especially during the Second World War. This encouraged stereotypes and generalizations about delinquents that created a push for further punitive action.
SA: What stereotypes were attached to girls and boys?
JS: Both boys and girls could be deemed incorri
