Interviews
On Monday, June 21st, barnesandnoble.com welcomed Bob Woodward to discuss SHADOW: FIVE PRESIDENTS AND THE LEGACY OF WATERGATE.
Jan from Miami, OH: Mr. Woodward, what was the inspiration in writing this book? Were you planning it for many years and waiting for Nixon's death to write it? Why now?
Bob Woodward: I started in '96 essentially because it was pretty clear that the scandals and investigation involving all the presidents since Nixon had changed the office and thrown the presidents off balance. It was the middle of Watergate that was not going away. Many books had been written about the legacy of Vietnam, and I wanted to tackle a longer period of history, and my editor at Simon & Schuster, Alice Mayhew, rekindled my interest in presidents I had written about.
Carolina Aguilera from New York: If you could summarize, what would you say was the biggest single effect of Watergate on the presidency?
Bob Woodward: It absorbed so much energy, and the investigations and inquiries that followed took an unbelievably deep emotional toll on the presidents, their families, and those close to them who got in trouble. So it redefined to a certain extent political power in America; presidents had less.
Peter from Seattle, WA: I understand that you interviewed former presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter for this book. Were they cooperative? Distrustful? What is your assessment of these men and their accomplishments post-office?
Bob Woodward: Good question. Ford was much more cooperative and willing to allow me to conduct a serious reexamination of his pardon of Nixon. Carter was more wary. But both former presidents, almost 20 years or more after they left office, are more relaxed, less defensive, and willing to acknowledge mistakes or misjudgments. Carter as an ex-president, as everyone now says, has done a fantastic job with international health and peace issues and probably has saved tens of thousands of lives, if not more.
Melissa from New York: As a result of Nixon's dishonesty, all subsequent presidents are subject to a relentless degree of second-guessing by both the public and the media, and yet, none of the presidents -- especially Bill Clinton -- seem to have understood the depth of this distrust. What do you think of this phenomenon? Are we expecting too much of our presidents?
Bob Woodward: We should expect more of our presidents. It is not a question of second-guessing; it is a question of presidents being candid and talking straight about mistakes, rather than defensively engaging in spin and relentless denial. Someday there will be a president who realizes the opportunity they'll have by regularly being up-front and not hiding.
Dr. Ray Clark from Richmond, VA: Bob, you have contributed so much to the field of journalism. Looking forward to reading SHADOW. How long did it take you to write the book, and how much new research did it involve?
Bob Woodward: I worked on SHADOW about three years -- conducted hundreds of new interviews, and my assistant, Jeff Glasser, spent weeks in the presidential archives and libraries. The bulk of the information in the book is new or puts a new interpretation on known events. For example, the research and reporting show that President Reagan was the best at adapting to the new climate of total questioning.
Dale Hoak from Williamsburg, VA: If Nixon committed impeachable offenses for which he almost certainly would have been convicted in the Senate, would you agree that Reagan is the only succeeding president (in the Iran-contra episode) to have committed similarly serious offenses?
Bob Woodward: Reagan's activities in the Iran-contra scandal were indeed serious, and he operated out of normal channels, but based on my research, no one ever found evidence that he had criminal knowledge of the illegal diversion of funds from the Iran arms sales to the contras fighting in Nicaragua.
Emily Marshall from Baltimore: So Americans have short historical memories? How short? I ask this question because one can imagine a time in, say, about 20 years, when Watergate will have gone the way of the Korean War, so to speak -- an episode so distant as to have no impact on the way most voters may think and/or vote with respect to the presidency.
Bob Woodward: Watergate memories have faded for many, but not for me. The issues I have attempted to address in this book go to the core of the quality of government and leadership we are going to get and address the larger question of what standards of honesty and directness the public will demand. So Watergate lingers and to a certain extent is ingrained. As Jimmy Carter says, "The ghosts of Watergate walk the White House halls." I believe they will be in those corridors for decades more.
Wes from Michigan: How much of your new book covers the scandals of the Clinton presidency?
Bob Woodward: About 60 percent of the book is focused on Clinton and his troubles, but I found that it can only be reasonably understood in the context of the scandal experiences of the other four presidents -- Ford, Carter, Reagan, and Bush.
Pat from Savage, MN: In the aftermath of Watergate and with the current close scrutiny by the press, why do you think presidents become so reckless and careless and think they will not be found out?
Bob Woodward: One factor is simply that presidents who have spent their entire lives scrambling to the top of the political ladder believe that they are entitled to more slack than the current system of independent counsels, congressional investigations, and media scrutiny permits.
Luke from Greensburg, PA: In SHADOW you point to the "myth of the big-time president -- someone with heroic energy, someone who can define an era." As we approach another presidential election, do you think any of the current candidates fit the bill?
Bob Woodward: We will certainly get an answer to that, as all of the candidates likely will face troubles, investigations, and inquiry. Of the major contenders, I don't see any of them who are totally comfortable with this new world we live in. One measure of their success will be to open up and avoid concealment and legalistic dodges.
Mark from Pittsburgh: Will you ever disclose Deep Throat's identity? Has it been difficult to keep the secret for so many years?
Bob Woodward: Not tonight! It has been a professional necessity that I keep my word when sources who are reliable provide sensitive information. When the source known as Deep Throat passes away or releases me from my commitment, his identity will be revealed.
Maria from Manhattan: Do you think the last impeachment trial would have taken place had there been no Watergate?
Bob Woodward: That is a wonderful question. First, with no Watergate there would be no independent counsel law and thus no Ken Starr investigation. So it is pretty clear it was necessary to have such a law to dig into the extraordinary relationship between Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. Second, we never would have had the impeachment trial if we had not had Clinton's behavior.
Ellen from Portland, ME: What was the most fascinating interview you conducted for this book?
Bob Woodward: It would be hard to single one out. Certainly some [include] the confidential sources I used to get the story of Clinton and his handling of Whitewater and the Lewinsky scandal -- to learn his actual language, demeanor, attitude, and frequent untruths to those closest to him, including his wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Reagan from Mississippi: Why do you think Hillary stood by the president and came out so publicly against a "right-wing conspiracy"? Will we see a different Hillary if she gets elected to the Senate?
Bob Woodward: First, Mrs. Clinton believed her husband for months when he denied any sexual relationship with Lewinsky. Second, as the book reports, Mrs. Clinton told friends that she still believed in what her husband was doing as president, and she decided that she had a most important friendship and partnership with him. She gained strength from her religious convictions and told a friend that she and the President were doing the right thing by seeking counseling. As to your second question, it is easier to imagine the creation of the universe than to speculate precisely what we might see if there is a Senator Hillary Clinton.
Carolina from New York: In your book, you write that "after Vietnam and Watergate, the modern presidency has been limited and diminished. Its inner workings and the behavior of presidents are fully exposed." Do you think this is a negative or positive result of Vietnam and Watergate?
Bob Woodward: It is more positive simply because presidents have so much power and define much of the national political life, so they need to be held accountable. Vietnam and Watergate show the wreckage that a single president can visit upon the entire nation. The first principle of journalism is that we need to know. At the same time, civility and a sense of good taste should allow presidents and presidential candidates some privacy. But Clinton's behavior demonstrated that almost anything is possible. So skepticism and intense curiosity will drive journalists who are trying to truly understand presidential character.
Hannah Marshall from Rhode Island: What do you think Clinton's legacy will be?
Bob Woodward: Clinton is working furiously to drive the impeachment into the second paragraph of his obituary. That will be hard, but the first rule in "Clintonland" is never under estimate the man. Clintonland is a term some of those close to the President use to define the truly unique environment the President creates.
Scott from Detroit: Your brilliant investigation and reporting on the Watergate scandal permanently changed journalism and contributed to the change in the public's expectations of the modern-day American presidency. How would you assess this change and your own role in it?
Bob Woodward: Carl Bernstein, my colleague at The Washington Post, and I did some of the initial stories about Watergate and the ties to Nixon, his White House, and the reelection campaign, but the record makes it clear that the Senate, Senate Watergate committee, House impeachment investigation, and special prosecutor inquiries got to the bottom of the affair -- not the two of us.
Moderator: It's the first day of summer! What books are you looking forward to reading this summer?
Bob Woodward: DUTCH, the new Edmund Morris book about Ronald Reagan that will be out by Random House next fall. I would like to get an early read on it. I just got the Goldman Sachs book [GOLDMAN SACHS: THE CULTURE OF SUCCESS] by Lisa Endlich, and it is excellent. Former Secretary of the Navy John Webb's book, THE EMPEROR'S GENERAL, and A DANGEROUS FRIEND by Ward Just.
Moderator: Thanks so much for spending some time with us this evening, Mr. Woodward. It was an enlightening discussion and has made for a truly legendary evening. Do you have any final remarks for the online audience?
Bob Woodward: It is heartening to see so many people have not thrown in the towel on American politics and seem to realize the impact politics has on their lives. Thank you very much.
